I'm wondering if there is real strong evidence, other than anecdotal accounts, for the wonderful claims that are made for the quasi-magical properties of that coffee melange.
I get it that under extreme physical circumstances (high in the Tibetan mountains) coffee mixed with butter can be a good way to replenish your energy quickly, but I'm not sure how this can be extrapolated to our more sedentary lives.
Even if the boost in energy (undeniable since you're ingesting a lot of fats) does make you feel good, it doesn't necessarily translate into long term benefits.
I'm wondering if there are any studies showing the effect on cholesterol, insulin levels, fasting sugar levels, over time.
And then can't help but getting very skeptical of the whole thing when I read that some of the products on sale on the website are marketed for 'brain detox'.
The science behind controlling your insulin levels is pretty solid.
As far as the coffee goes, it's pretty good coffee, but Dave uses the "no mycotoxins" as the selling point for his brand. For me, the whole mycotoxins thing is where things start to get a bit muddled as there's a debate on whether or not they actually matter (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwY4H3cNTH0).
I wouldn't go so far as to call it snake oil, but I don't think all of his stuff is 1000% necessary.
I really want to see one serious double blind study where someone extracts oil out of snakes and tests its effectiveness on various common ailments. Not for scientific rigor. At this point, I just really want to know what would happen.
I've done a lot of introspection when it comes to things like this and how their marketing affects me. Although I know it is snake oil and can't help but laugh at the concept of putting butter in your coffee, let alone selling it - something in me REALLY wants to buy his products. Great marketing lesson if you ask me.
I've done the bullet proof coffee thing as my morning cup on and off, depending on how lazy I am. (I usually take it black from an Aero Press for the sake of convenience.) Anyway, I found it to be similar to a latte since it froths in the blender. You need to get grass fed butter or it is pretty nasty. But when I make it with Kerry Gold butter or similar, it's pretty good, if you like lattes.
As far as the, "it will change your life" crowd goes it just seems like different strokes for different folks to me. These are probably the same fad jumpers that were having their life changed by something else last month.
> As far as the, "it will change your life" crowd goes it just seems like different strokes for different folks to me. These are probably the same fad jumpers that were having their life changed by something else last month.
I'm a confirmed, life-long coffee fanatic, and pretty adventurous when it comes to food. I just couldn't stand the stuff.
To me it tastes like coffee, with butter. I take your point about half and half, but the butter just made it seem wrong, wrong, wrong. As weird as putting ginger ale in a piping hot cup of Earl Grey.
Valid point if you've tried it & don't like it. I just question people who write it off without trying it while seemingly putting equally strange things (half/half, sugar, equal, sucralose, etc) in their coffee. Just because something is "most common" doesn't make it better or make something worse. That seems like a very lazy way of evaluating options.
I drink coffee and eat buttered toast and can see the oiliness floating around just from the tiny amount of butter that gets into the coffee. it just doesn't look clean at all.
The whole thing is goofy. Coffee and caffeine without carbohydrate elevate adrenaline and cortisol. The way to take coffee is with sugar or with a meal including starch. Eating butter and coffee alone is an unambiguously bad idea.
The goal of the drink is to stunt hunger and prolong the morning fat burning process. The sugar will spike your insulin levels and put a stop to that immediately.
Exactly. Fat has a lot of calories but it doesn't produce an insulin response and isn't digested nearly as quickly as carbohydrates, so it keeps you satiated. A dose of fat early in the morning will help keep you from feeling hunger pangs for a while.
Yup. It's the same idea as Seth Roberts' "Shangri-la Diet" where you drink a tbsp of olive oil or something first thing in the morning which supposedly reduces hunger the rest of the day.
In Roberts' theory it's crucial to avoid taste or smell at the same time, while the time of day you take it doesn't matter -- so this wouldn't be the same, unless you drank your coffee with a noseclip on. I wonder if anyone does that.
I don't know why this made me laugh so hard. Just the idea of all these bulletproofers chugging their coffee with bag-clips on their noses. Thanks for that.
>Fat has a lot of calories but it doesn't produce an insulin response
So? Why are people so fixated on insulin?
>isn't digested nearly as quickly as carbohydrates, so it keeps you satiated
And yet potatoes are the highest satiety food. The whole "fat is filling so you eat fewer calories and lose weight" thing is just a hypothesis that was put forth to explain why people eat fewer calories on low carb diets. It is not fact.
Insulin is elevated when your blood sugar is elevated (which happens when you ingest simple carbs & sugars). When that happens, your body goes from it's fat burning mode (default state) to carb burning. Basically, insulin is elevated and your body starts storing the glucose as glycogen in your muscles. When those stores are full, then it stores the rest as fat.
Maintaining normalized insulin levels keeps your body burning fat, which is a slower burning, preferred source of energy, but most people eat so many carbs that their body never relearns how to do it.
As a type 1 diabetic I can tell you that eating fat requires insulin commensurate with the energy it has. My own mental model of fat elevating my blood sugar level compared to other forms of energy is the rate at which it happens: somewhat slower than simple sugars, and much faster than complex carbohydrates.
The article you reference doesn't say insulin is pointless. it says you need to consider Leptins with it... which yes, is basic biology.
Insulin is the mechanics of how sugars and proteins are processed (whether as energy for muscles or stored as fat). Leptins are the process which update the brain. (i.e when you are hungry/full etc).
Both obviously have huge implications on weight management. So it isn't a "weird fixation on insulin", it is weird that Leptins are not mentioned more often. But maybe that is diets not wanting to over complicate things. Where as insulin is more widely understood because of implications in diabetes etc.
> >When that happens, your body goes from it's fat burning mode (default state) to carb burning
> That is a complete misrepresentation of reality made by people pushing a fad diet.
No it isn't. It is a simplification, but not really a misrepresentation and definitely not a complete misrepresentation. Sugar enters blood, Leptins signal brain. Pancreas produces insulin, insulin blocks tri-glycerol from being released from existing fat stores, and begins either replenishing glycogen stores from the blood, or producing more tri-glycerol. (This is still a simplification)... But please point out the misrepresentation, because if were trying to be more concise I would say: "switches from fat-burning to carb-burning/fat-storing".
>The article you reference doesn't say insulin is pointless
Why would it say something that absurd, and why do you think I believed it did? I said nothing even remotely like that, and that doesn't even make sense.
>Both obviously have huge implications on weight management
Except that the evidence suggests otherwise, that's the point.
>But please point out the misrepresentation, because if were trying to be more concise I would say: "switches from fat-burning to carb-burning/fat-storing".
You just did. There is no "fat burning mode" and "carb burning mode". Again, the link I already gave you very nicely and clearly discusses this.
> Why would it say something that absurd, and why do you think I believed it did? I said nothing even remotely like that, and that doesn't even make sense.
You referred to insulin as a "weird fixation" as if it were meaningless in a weight management context. And your response above is just obnoxious, if you have a point make it, stop referring to it. Obvious troll is obvious.
> Except that the evidence suggests otherwise, that's the point.
No, it doesn't. Evidence suggests they both have huge implications. You remove leptins you get a high correlation with obesity (as mentioned in your own article). You remove insulin you get "difficulty storing fat", you pump insulin high, and you get high storage of fat. Try out a google scholar search on "insulin resistance", "diabetes and weight management", "insulin fat". Again make your point rather than referring to it, as it looks to me you are just running out of actual knowledge and resorting to rhetoric.
> You just did. There is no "fat burning mode" and "carb burning mode". Again, the link I already gave you very nicely and clearly discusses this.
You chose not to include my expanded description of what happens. Now I know you are trolling...
You can't be bothered to even look at the "wordpress blog" to see what it is, but I am the one trolling? If you have something to say, then say it. Posting just to see your name isn't productive.
> >When that happens, your body goes from it's fat burning mode (default state) to carb burning
> That is a complete misrepresentation of reality made by people pushing a fad diet.
What's your understanding that happens then?
>When those stores are full, then it stores the rest as fat.
>So? What do you think it does with fat?
For most people, it stores it as fat and does nothing because most people eat enough carbs (quick burning source of energy) to never have to switch to fat burning.
>For most people, it stores it as fat and does nothing because most people eat enough carbs (quick burning source of energy) to never have to switch to fat burning.
So insulin is a problem because of what then? And how is that different from what would happen if you replaced those carbs with fats? (Please don't actually answer with the keto nonsense, read the link and see that the answer is "nothing would change").
>Are you actually denying ketosis[0] exists? Or are you claiming it isn't reached through carb-restriction[1]?
No. What is the purpose of ignoring what I posted and asking completely random non-sequitur questions? Are you actually denying pancakes exist? Or claiming they aren't made with flour?
You so quickly ran out of actual knowledge that your discussion ran off a cliff.
Come back when you've actually read a little bit about how the body works. I've given you plenty of scholar links to start at. Maybe just strike up a conversation with a diabetic, explain to them your theory on how insulin has no effect.
Because insulin regulates the metabolism of carbohydrates and fats by promoting the absorption of glucose from the blood to skeletal muscles and fat tissue and by causing fat to be stored rather than used for energy[1]. Accordingly the body's insulin response has a massive role in weight management, and certain foods invoke a greater insulin response than others.
You're one of those "calories in - calories out" guys, I take it?
Note, however, that the methodology of this particular study may have contributed to an artificially high satiety value for potatoes. Per the study's design, the participants were separately fed 220-Calorie servings of each food. A 220-Calorie serving of plain potatoes is larger and much less palatable than the other foods studied. The size of this serving may have influenced a repulsion to this test food that goes beyond the normal satiating response.
Summary: "I don't like the evidence so I'll ignore it" is not compelling. Being a low calorie, high volume food is not "artificial" satiety, it is satiety.
It's arguing that poor palatability may have been confused for high satiety. Have you ever eaten a boiled potato with nothing else on it? It tastes terrible. After a couple of bites, you don't want any more. That is not the same thing as satiety. The starch in potatoes is also digested very quickly, so it doesn't keep you satiated for long unless consumed with fats.
220 calories of potato is one medium potato - maybe 300 grams.
I find it hard to think that amount causes a person to avoid potato. Did the researcher actually notice potato-aversion, or are they (and this is not a bad thing) speculating?
>It's arguing that poor palatability may have been confused for high satiety.
I know that. And I am saying they are basing that on nothing. They just said "the data is less important than what we think the data should look like based on our feelings".
>Have you ever eaten a boiled potato with nothing else on it? It tastes terrible
Yes, they taste fine. Obviously they taste better with salt and pepper and butter, but they are not unpalatable without them. Have you ever eaten boiled pasta with nothing else on it? How is that more palatable?
So between obsessing over your coffee accompaniments and say, avoiding one stressful encounter per week, which is the better strategy?
(Obviously "do both" is an answer, but the idea is not to pick the optimum strategy, it is to illustrate where people should direct their limited focus...)
I did this for a while a few years ago. I'm not adverse to fat and so I was all in on the butter. Bought a little hand blender/frother from amazon and went all out for about a month.
First off, the Aero Press didn't really impress. I got rid of it - it just wasn't worth it for me. I could never make it 'work', coffee was always thin.
As far as the Bulletproof coffee, it was too 'light' for me. I know Dave was talkin about making a darker roast, but at that time his roast didn't really appeal to me. I was doing French, Italian, or Espresso roasts via drip funnel for a while and I had it down pretty good. I felt like I had a pretty rich and big flavor, but I was willing to try the low toxin approach. Didn't hold me for very long.
Also, Dave says he can thrown down multiple cups of this stuff and after the first cup (I would even thrown 1/2 stick of butter in), my stomach was not happy.
I get where he is going with all this. I've been to Tibet, I've had yak tea, I've had Chai in India, etc and the Bulletproof method just didn't do it for me.
But back to fat. I've actually moved to a high fat diet (more or less). I don't do anything low fat. I do veggies and meats and for the meats, I want the fat. My morning always consists of some sort of fat - only grass fed butter with eggs, full fat yogurt, etc - and it works for me. Nothing processed, whole foods only.
For my coffee I love Weavers. They have fair trade organic and their French roast is really good. Prob one of the darkest roasts I've tried that just has this really killer smooth, nutty flavor. I use whole cream and a little sugar. I love it.
My weight has pretty much stabilized. I'm not super lean, but I'm not super lardo either. If I hopped back on my bike, I could prob drop 20lbs in a few months. My LDL checks in at normal and my doc said nothing is crazy out of balance.
Everyone has theories and Dave's are interesting. I guess it just boils down to trying different things and seeing what works.
Aeropress: were you using the brew method suggested in the Aeropress manual? If so, yeah, that one sucks - no wonder you didn't get on with it!
If you fancy giving it another go and haven't tried it already, the general approach used by most champion baristas who use Aeropress is much hotter water (around usual brew temperatures, 90 - 96C) and the "inverted" method - see http://stumptowncoffee.com/brew-guides/aeropress/
Inverted brewing is by far the best, but if you want to stick with the standard method, buying a metal filter helps a lot. Able brewing sells a very good laser-cut stainless steel one.
Dave Asprey markets well known and researched concepts under his own brand, from performance/biohackig perspective.
The bulletproof diet is basically at it's core a very low carb/paleo/ketogenic diet, incorporating intermittent fasting.
Mark Scisson has pretty much the same approach with his Primal Blueprint - re-branded diet and prepackaged lifestyle.
Using healthy fats as main energy source, skipping breakfast and excluding carbohydrates from your nutritional intake would regulate your insulin sensitivity, blood glucose levels, respectively leading to imoroved energy balance.
What I like about Sisson is that he talks about things in practical senses (this is best, this is better, this is how you can deal with it in a pinch). Dave tends to be a bit more high-end with a focus on "you either do it the uber-optimized way or not at all."
No way is right (I actually tend to like the extreme ends myself), but I find Sisson's approach is typically more end-user friendly (especially for newbies).
Sisson ends up being fairly pragmatic. I really like the encouragement to do self-experiments to see what works for you. All dogma should be secondary to the results you see personally.
"As you can see, the Fullness Factor does a reasonably good job of predicting the satiety responses, with the possible exception of potatoes. Note, however, that the methodology of this particular study may have contributed to an artificially high satiety value for potatoes. Per the study's design, the participants were separately fed 220-Calorie servings of each food. A 220-Calorie serving of plain potatoes is larger and much less palatable than the other foods studied. The size of this serving may have influenced a repulsion to this test food that goes beyond the normal satiating response."
That quote is literally "I don't like the data, so I will pretend no data is better". There are no studies that contradict it, so claiming it is "some tests" is pretty dishonest. Even their flimsy reasoning makes no sense. Who says a plain potato is so unpalatable? That is a subjective question. Is it really any less palatable than plain white bread or plain rice or plain lentils? The other point is outright dishonest. Yes, 220 calories of potatoes is more food than 220 calories of jelly beans. That's part of satiety. It is a measure of fullness per calorie. I'm sure celery would rate pretty high on a satiety scale too, but nobody pretends celery is some sort of evil carb monster you should never eat like they do with potatoes.
All sources I could find talk specifically of boiled potatoes, as opposed to e.g. mashed potatoes, and apparently they all go back to one study which was not replicated. You can trust it if you like, but don't pretend that everyone else should. Read Ionnadis ("most published research is false"), and the recent nature cancer reproduction report (48 of 53 highly celebrated results about cancer that were published in Science and Nature were not reproducible).
They have an extremely good match for everything other than potatoes. The right thing to do, practically, is to ignore the outlier for most statistics on one hand, and to try to reproduce the outlier results on others. Theoretically, you would believe nothing and do everything again (and again) until you have perfect correlation between theory and practice.
Either way, every google search I've found says "potatoes are the exception" and they all seem to trace back to one study. Trust it if you like, I don't.
I don't understand your response. There were two studies that showed the same data. There have been no other studies. A website made up some numbers that don't fit that data. It is not based on any study or evidence at all. And you are suggesting that is more credible than the studies. Not trusting a study does not mean that it makes sense to trust "I just made this stuff up".
Can you point to both studies? I've only found multiple references to one study.
This website describes a simple regression (with 4 to 9 degrees of freedom depending on your underlying assumptions, let us assume 9 which is the "worst") that has a good match to that data of 38 points; if you are familiar with the quality of nutrition "science", this is actually extremely good match - e.g. atwater factors are often 30%-50% different than expected (and assumed "ground truth" based on 100 year old measurements) when actually measured. You have to not trust either atwater or the more recent measurements - possibly both.
Now, this regression, seems to hold very well with the exception of potatoes. From this, personally, I would infer either (a) a mistake somewhere in the data collection or (b) potatoes are special among the foods tested in a way not captured in this regression.
Actually working in data science for a living for a few years, my experience is that the practical thing to do is to drop the outliers from your dataset on one hand (so that your regressions and descriptions are robust with respect to the data that you DO consider) and investigate the outliers on the other hand, to figure out if it's an error in the input or a missing input (e.g., I would guess measurements like "water per cm^3" and "weight per cm^3" might be good measurements - if I had a proper "test set" to validate them against; just adding more measurements is usually NOT what you want to do).
Potato could be special in its effects on hunger / satiety - I don't know. e.g. among common food items, fresh eggs and fresh milk are special in the sense that, unlike any other "single" food item, they are each individually enough to sustain life. But based on the data I can find by googling (hardly anything to base policy on, but what I personally used as input) - I assume that, for whatever reason, potatoes are an exception to the general rule.
You may disagree, but I hope you at least understand my response.
>Actually working in data science for a living for a few years, my experience is that the practical thing to do is to drop the outliers from your dataset
The website's numbers are not a dataset. Again, it is made up numbers by a random website. There is no evidence behind it at all. The study's numbers do not have outliers, you only want there to be an outlier by comparing the dataset to completely made up numbers with no basis in fact.
> completely made up numbers with no basis in fact.
Did we look at the same website? They give the formula by which they derived the numbers, based on "standard" nutritional data for those foods. It's not a dataset per-se, it is (supposedly) a simple and easily reproducible computation of a widely available dataset. (No, I did not try to reproduce though I would if I were going to take any action based on this).
Why would you assume it is random?
And I ask, again, if you can point me to the two independent studies that confirm potato's properties, because I can only find one.
Suit yourself. The "calorie count" is just as invented according to your definition -- if you are not familiar with how calories are measured, educate yourself (and if you believe it is science, then make sure you can answer the question "then how come gasoline (12kc/gr) or paper (a carbohydrate) are not human edible", and "when and how were atwater factors derived". If you can answer these things and believe anything in nutrition is not "invented science" by your definition, then we have differing definitions of what constitutes science.
And if you believe (as I do) that all of this is entirely unscientific, but some of it is sort of useful - than what exactly are you arguing?
I get it that under extreme physical circumstances (high in the Tibetan mountains) coffee mixed with butter can be a good way to replenish your energy quickly, but I'm not sure how this can be extrapolated to our more sedentary lives.
Even if the boost in energy (undeniable since you're ingesting a lot of fats) does make you feel good, it doesn't necessarily translate into long term benefits.
I'm wondering if there are any studies showing the effect on cholesterol, insulin levels, fasting sugar levels, over time.
And then can't help but getting very skeptical of the whole thing when I read that some of the products on sale on the website are marketed for 'brain detox'.
Sounds like snake oil to me.