True. However, more and more product based companies are setting up shop in India. Many of these have vigorous and interesting interview processes that identify truly capable technical people. And believe it or not, they offer very high pay packages that sometimes exceed that of Executives.

I agree that the number of such opportunities is still small compared to openings in Service-based companies. But the trend has started to catch on. Recently, Infosys announced an increasing focus on products because they realize that the services business ‘provides revenue that scales only linearly with headcount’. As more and more product work happens in India, core techies will gain greater value. Also, as the years pass: a) more Engineering students will graduate, the total number of really strong engineers (vs. the let-me-please-mom-n-dad types) will increase leading to the creation of great techie environments in more companies. b) more well experienced Engineers will stay in hands-on roles leading to proper mentoring that enhances the techie environments.

The Business guys will still be more important as anywhere in the world. But the treatment of programmers as commodities that worries you will decrease, IMHO.

"working today in the US and probably will end up being US citizens."

So? And what kind of a generalization are making here anyways? You are meaning to say: "All people who did this cleared GRE/ GMAT and went to the USA". That's a gross overstatement based on no evidence. Not to mention the fact, assuming even if they did get their project made from somewhere else (I really doubt it that it happens a lot), they still had other academics to clear. And they had the GRE exam. And then they cleared the job interview. Means they were not as dull and stupid as you want them to and show them to be.

Your tone and your attitude seems more of hate based than anything else.

Kamaal, Do you get frustrated because you don't think you are paid as much as you should be? Or, that the business people shouldn't be paid as much as the technical guys? If it is the latter, there is no respite, and you should probably do what others do.

First of all, you are in your own country, and you are welcome to leave the job anytime you want. ANYTIME. If you think you are overworked you don't have to put up with it, you just move on. There is no shortage of software jobs in India, and if you are as technical as you say you are, you shouldn't have any problem finding one.

Secondly, are you an engineer because you like it, or you do it to satisfy your ego, or differentiate yourself, or because you worked so hard until now that you can't give up? If it is for any other reasons than the first one, take a good hard look at yourself. It probably is not worth being frustrated all your life for anything. Life is short, and you should not do disservice to yourself. Don't buy into the hype created by society for serving its own selfish reasons. Yeah, it is great if you invented an algorithm that solves a problem in half the time, but recognize that in itself it is meaningless to your life unless you enjoy it. Don't, please don't do it because everyone says so-and-so thing is great.

Thirdly, I don't know how you would do it, but please don't let others recognition of you define your happiness. Do it by keeping away from people who cause all the negativity or learn to ignore them. You are your own person, and you should do everything to serve yourself better and keep yourself happy.

PS: I am a desi living in the US from quite a while now. I felt the same frustration you feel now. It is quite a journey to get out of it, but you should not stay where you are

PPS: You are not responsible for the world. The world is a unjust place and is what it is. Learn to live with it. It is not going to be "your" problem in a few short years anyways.

The other way. Technical guys must be paid what they deserve.

I don't know why you think I'm frustrated. And if you feel things are good as they are in India, then I rest my case.

I have no intentions of immigrating to US. Especially when there is so much growth in India and I have so much to benefit from, besides I don't feel coming to US alone will magically transform my career and make a billionaire. If working hard is what it takes to be successful, I might very well do it here rather than the US. Also immigrating to US means spending a long process to get green card and citizenship which translates to >10 years dependency on corporate sponsorship. And there is little logic in living hand to mouth just because you can get a citizen ship there, while you can have it all here now.

Besides India is awesome these days. I see nothing that I'm missing by not being in the US. Travel for a visit is a different thing, but setting down in US is something I don't feel is worth at this time.

But I respect your decisions. And I'm sure you have your own reasons. And I wish you all the very best.

I don't know if you immigrated to the US. But if you did, I know you have your own reasons. If you are happy about it, stand by it. Other wise why should you have any issues at all?

When I see the average HN-er complain in the thread on the recent (Latimes?) article which complained about how Liberal Arts degrees are letting people down, I feel that your nation has decided to strap lead weights and jump into the deep end.

STEM fetishization is Bad. its stupid, counter productive and creates a vastly toxic situation where now everyone has to go to college to get a STEM degree so that they can go on to become consultants.

If non-STEM inclined people start doing STEM, all you get is a huge demand for STEM and that follows with rising prices of premier institutions, dilution of degree value from anyone else and then a flood of McDonalds education institutions which prey on the weak.

On top of that it leads to unhealthy competition and student suicides as - well now you need to get great SAT scores before you count anywhere in the world.

I could go on, but I forget more points every time I remember one.

One of the things that you will realize was important once its gone, is people actually versed in history and softer study fields who can chime in discussions and provide things like good moral arguments.

If I asked someone here to defend free speech beyond the obvious first few feints and lunges, they'd fall.

STEM has a certain utilitly, but for many its only useful for introductory jobs. Specialization is too great. And Like accounting, it is a limited skillset, especially for senior management positions. So, yes a technical degree will put you in a better 1sr year salary than an english major (or whatever) but its not going to make a career happen per-se.

Their is also dis-utility. There is a power curve thing. Unfortunately, STEM grades are more transparent and the use of curves is prevalent. Two things follow: not everyone is in the 10% (or top 10-20 schools). And there is a clear signal on who is not.

Both this guy and the english major now have to go to grad school or what not to prove something. Maybe they both do MBAs. But then you have an engineer with an MBA, and still this is arguably not great either. He's arguably at a dis-advantage in soft-skills (empathy, creativity), and his former advantage in quantitative elements vs the english major is less.

For some roles, this is fine. But There are plenty of smart people good at maths that make poor investment bankers, or poor economists, or poor product-dev guys. Just like the english major with the weak quant skills, but they are just missing the boat from another angle.

Alternatively, for grad school in STEM you are unlikely to gain entry in the lower half of your class. So again, for the lower performers this can limit options.

The only people that really have business dedicating their (entire) undergrad to science are: phd candidates, medicine, and applied engineers (like civil). And then those top or the top-top 10-20% of they best who are going to be able to leverage the full value of the degree. Go on to Ms, or otherwise put it to use in a deeper career trajectory, or go on to NASA or Google, etc.

What needs to happen with the rest, though, is intesting. The level of technical skills for basic competence is higher today than 30 years ago, so people need to be doing more 3+1 or 4+1 or 2+2 degrees, combining a technical qualification with a proper education in another area, such as liberal arts or something inter-disciplinary. Being one-dimensional is now a bit of a liability (in either direction).

The HN audience is not a great sample, as there are people here for whom total technical dedication indeed pays off (and makes sense). And/or who are bright enough to absorb knowledge in other areas independently. But one is best aware of what is the general and what is the exception. The odds are long otherwise.

Don't want to sound dismissing, but where outside scholarly work is it necessary to defend free speech beyond the obvious first few feints and lunges ? Public debate and policy making rarely go beyond those first feints and lunges, plus some vote gathering.

So, if it has no practical purpose, you can argue it's worth doing for itself, but then you'd just position itself near that modern madhouse, contemporary poetry.

This is the case with an obvious argument like free speech.

Have a debate on something like civil liberties and rights, or the Aadhar scheme and you will draw blanks.

Or comprehensive and confident arguments against something as basic as superstition.

I'm sure after a series of disasters and a home grown enlightenment movement which grows out of religious adventurism we could learn the same lessons as the west. The question is do we have to?

I know a guy who was quite dedicated with his project and though he didn't get good marks ( project )or awesome campus placement, he got into AMD later as a new grad. ( w.r.t placement ).

Our team did some work on compiler ( source to source translation ) which is pretty unknown in my college and even the guys who make project for cash won't take it as they prefer easy cash :P

At the end it all depends whether the guy has a hungry mind or chooses the easy path.

Exactly my point. I am happy that he got what he deserved. But you can imagine this is not likely to work at scale.

There are many places where you won't even be shortlisted for the interview if you don't have good marks.

In the technical field, cheating or faking it can only take you so far. Comparison should not really be with companies like TCS, Infosys, but with good companies who hire real talent and pay for that talent.

This, as far as I know is a direct result of proliferation of the number of engineering colleges in India. A good warning for companies to start recruiting only from top engineering colleges.

I was forever interested in what I was doing. Be it studying biology in class 12 (Yes, I had PCMB) or studying the subjects in my engineering class. I initially took admission to Computer science but soon realized my affinity to electronics. I took a branch shift. I never copied any lab experiment or any project, minor or major. Being the only girl who wanted to make her own projects, I was left alone, yet I struggled and learnt enough to be picked now by the largest open source hardware company.

But when I was completing graduation, no company would come to take students from my college. Yes, not even Infosys or TCS. Also I would have been more or less rejected even if those companies came as my area of studies and expertise is very specific and narrowed down. What deters core companies to pick students from small colleges? I strongly believe that I would have got a better career beginning if only core companies came for interview. My currently employers did not care for my degree or the 'percentage' I scored. It was simply my contribution to the open source community that got me where I am today.

TL;dr : I strongly vote out against companies discriminating against 'small' and 'big' named colleges. Least there is another interested hard working mostly self-taught engineer as me in any of them.

Most Master's degree holders from other Indian universities cannot even solve FizzBuzz in a language of their choice. http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2007/02/why-cant-programmer...

Maybe they can't go to each and every college in the country? Or maybe it's just inertia on their part.

That doesn't quite make sense. Wouldn't technical work be the "smart" work?

Its not very financially rewarding. And when you see the guy next to you making big bucks by just asking for status updates, forwarding mails and changing cells on excel sheets. You begin to wonder if its worth it.

I had this same question and asked one of the more experienced guy in our team on why he didn't took the managerial path when he had the chance and experience - his answer was "This is what I like". I could see that there are more financially motivated people in the team than there are people who love technology. If tomorrow the whole IT industry in the country goes extinct most of the guys who fill in excel sheets will be happy counting boxes in a factory as long as they pay enough.

This is a defeatist attitude - giving up before you even start. Its surely better to learn technical skills and then later-on develop your business/management skills if required. Saying that students cheat because they have no long term reward is a poor excuse.

and frankly if someone is smart enough to play politics and get the business done by being a manager, why shouldn't they get rewarded ?

I am technically strong and loved every project I did in collage but I also recognize the value of business people and their marketing and sales skills. Learn from them and be good in business and engineering.