In the past I was addicted to pot. I was addicted in the sense that pretty much everything felt better when I was high. I was more relaxed and had less anxiety. Sex was better. Food tasted better. I was more creative. I thought about much deeper things. I spent less time online and in front of screens.
The biggest downside for me--and the reason I ended up quitting--was that my sober life just sucked in comparison. I was just waiting until the end of the day when I could go home and light up.
The other downsides were that I wasn't as sharp mentally when I was sober. I wasn't as ambitious. I was less social. In other words, it made me feel fine just hanging out in my apartment doing nothing. On the balance that made pot a negative for me.
Quitting wasn't that hard. And I still think about how great I felt when I smoked. I may smoke again in the future but for now, I appreciate operating in the real world without any crutches.
> The other downsides were that I wasn't as sharp mentally when I was sober. I wasn't as ambitious. I was less social. In other words, it made me feel fine just hanging out in my apartment doing nothing. On the balance that made pot a negative for me.
This is exactly why I quit. I found myself not comprehending technical conversations as well as I used to while sober. Hanging out at home doing nothing when you REALLY do want to go out do something eventually got me to quit. For me ambition is what has guided me for so long and not having that created an emptiness. I too felt less anxiety but in the long run I was actively watching the days go by and no progress in my life.
I don't believe these things are talked about enough. Its just the stereotypical "pothead".
This is something I had a serious problem with. First times I got high I realized I would forget the beginning of sentences by the time I got to the end of them so I basically could not form a complex thought. And I found this a hugely negative aspect. The relaxation/easygoing/laugh-at-everything/everything-tastes-amazing factors were not good enough to justify basically being mentally-handicapped.
The other problem was the hunger. Oh my god, the hunger. Food was the best thing ever... which is bad for a guy battling weight gain ever since 18. I knew this wasn't my drug when I ate an entire pizza by myself after smoking up and my stomach absolutely hated me the entire next day. The pot-using crowd I was with another time was highly entertained when I demanded to see the chef to compliment him in person on his risotto, though. :)
So I went back to my favorite mind-altering substance- A good whiskey or a couple of dark beers. :)
But to each their own. I do think that pot users, like gamers (note: is a gamer), need to be careful that their utilization does not impede other important/impactful areas of their lives too much.
> This is exactly why I quit. I found myself not comprehending technical conversations as well as I used to while sober.
This has not been my experience at all. In fact, total opposite entirely. If I smoke up I simply can not absorb any new technical information that is above my current knowledge and skill level. I am however more creative in coming up with solutions or new ideas with the information that I already might have.
It's confusing wording but I think the person he was responding to was saying that he had a harder time comprehending while sober, whereas he has a harder time comprehending while high.
As I understand it, the first person had a harder time comprehending while sober, because of his regular pot consumption. Compared to how well he comprehended sober when he didn't regularly smoke. So both think pot affected their comprehension, although one feels more affected when high and the other one when sober.
Concur, I found it can be sometimes an extremely frustrating, if not impossible experience trying to understand new technical concepts, however, when working over well trodden ground, it can show new subtle, mostly positive twists of creativity.
I went back after nearly 2 years clean. I don't recommend it. Once again I'm lacking in mental energy. I'm all for MJ if you need it, but I think a lot of us are fooling ourselves into thinking it's benign. Sure, it's better than alcohol, but I don't think that's a useful benchmark.
Sobriety can be boring, but until someone invents a better drug I think it's my only option until I retire.
As someone who has never smoked, I feel like this is the argument I always had with my friends who all have/do. Ultimately, their argument for smoking basically boiled down to the lack of scientific evidence that there are lasting consequences and that it was nowhere near as bad as alcohol. My argument was that there was a lack in scientific evidence, and that comparing the utility to alcohol was stupid.
It seems unlikely that a drug that affects neurotransmitters wouldn't result in tolerance, and the scientific evidence and anecdotal reports seem to confirm this. Anything that gives you a 'high' will ultimately have the opposite effect when you're sober. So in the end you'll just wind up wasting money smoking to feel normal, and you'll feel like shit when you've been sober for a while.
I did not feel like shit when cold turkey stopping a 4 year daily habit of MJ.
I know it's highly anecdotal, but I'm very thankful I spent those four years smoking cannabis instead of drinking alcohol, smoking cigarettes, or taking prescription pills.
There's a few talk on youtube where people tried to make stats of mental illness due to THC. It's not conclusive but it paints a less rosy picture than the 'natural harmless' substance one can hear everywhere.
Medicine is not a very giving topic, if you want to 'know' you better be infinitely patient and precise.
> In other words, it made me feel fine just hanging out in my apartment doing nothing.
I've experienced this as well, but I don't consider it an inherit downside. To me, this is just my personal self being satisfied and at peace with not needing more than I have. Frequently I like to smoke alone in nature, just so I can rest peacefully.
If I had zero obligations or goals in life, I would smoke pot all day every day.
But since, like OP, it makes me want to sit at home and do nothing (not inherently a bad thing), it impedes my goals of producing creative work.
There is a fine line, I think, between people who can smoke pot responsibly (every few days or only once a week) and people who cannot go a single day (or even a few hours) without smoking.
As I've said in another post, I smoke about everyday, but I don't have any problem pursuing my goals, producing creative works, or excelling in my career.
The fine line you're talking about does exist, but it doesn't have anything to do with the frequency of usage. Responsibility can be achieved with or without pot.
Your choice. If you feel it's not holding you back then go for it.
IMO, pot is great when you're stuck in a situation in life which you can't escape for other factors. It can make a bad situation tolerable.
IME, pot increases your tactical thinking skills while reducing your strategic thinking ability. For instance, I spent years as a programmer doing well in my job while I was high all the time. It was great during the early phase of my career when people didn't expect much out of me, other than solving a list of bugs/defects or hacking my way through things. When I 'woke up' in my 40s, I realized I failed to grow in ways that were necessary for me to advance as both a programmer and a person. Now that I have spent some time sober, I really see what it enabled me to do to myself(or not do).
If you haven't taken a 6 month break I highly encourage it. If it seems difficult I hope you are honest with yourself to the point where you realize the hold it has on you. I spent 15 years nearly constantly high. I always told myself I could quit and never managed to go more than a few days sober. I always told myself that I just didn't want to stop, but I could if I really wanted to. It wasn't until I really tried to quit that I knew the kind of hold it had on me.
I think a lot of us in the tech industry can get away with a lot of bad behavior for quite a while. Showing up late, or stoned, or both... Not pushing the boundaries but just getting by... A lot of us can do that and still be considered 'rock stars' by the people around us, but therein lies a danger.
I'm not saying you can't smoke pot regularly and be successful. There are always exceptions and people with enough willpower to make it happen. They are the minority in the people I've encountered in life, however.
Thanks for the thoughtful input, and I'm certainly taking your anecdotes as advice. In fact, taking a break seems like a good idea, I'll have to work this into my life sometime soon.
However I have to be honest, my life has never been more successful than it currently is. Not to say it would be more so if I wasn't a daily user, but hopefully you see my point.
No need to respond if you're not comfortable, but in what ways did you fail to grow, that you realized? This could also be good advice for me.
It's tough.. Not only was I a pothead, I was an advocate. I grew and supplied dispensaries with flowers and edibles. I'm not saying weed should be banned but I think we need a rational discussion on it.
I understand your feelings. My salary peaked in the midst of my binge. I was a (in my circle) somewhat of a rockstar, making tons of money, working an easy job. It's the classic story of the tortoise and the hare though. I am, in some limited technical aspects, kinda smart. Some things come easy. I let that lull me into thinking I didn't need to compete. Now I'm no longer the golden boy and struggling to stay relevant in a rapidly changing world.
I failed to learn to develop my strategic thinking. As you age, people pay you less for the work you can get done and more for your ability to lead, to strategize, to think ahead. They don't pay you to craft clever solutions(well, not as much). You have to be social, clear minded, and dependable. I let myself get buried in unfinished tasks and useless distractions. I failed to cultivate more mature relationships outside my stoner friend circle. I failed to pursue more difficult and challenging roles. Heck, a peer of mine just landed a very senior job at MS. If I hadn't had my head in the clouds, I could have achieved similar successes. I basically burned the last ten years, my thirties, getting by instead of looking ahead.
I also let a very damaging relationship persist long after I knew it was destined to fail. I should have ended my marriage over a decade ago but instead I got high and avoided it. Now I'm on the hook for long-term alimony and starting over in my 40s after losing my house and over half of my net worth.
It's definitely not all the fault of my addictions, but my choice of drugs certainly didn't help. Now that I'm beyond it(despite dipping my toe back in the waters over the last few weeks to try to ease my sleep apnea), I have the clarity to see how it held me back. I always had a voracious appetite for learning and self-improvement. During my time 'in the cloud' it turned into a self-destructive binge of useless and expensive hobbies and distractions. I emerged with not much to show for it besides some hazy memories. Life is short. Attack it.
As a 25 year old, going on 31 days quitting cold turkey after blazing every hour for the past 5 years, having gone through a divorce 10 months ago...thank you for your post. Seriously, thank you. I attributed a lot of my successes to my weed smoking habit, but I have been catching whiffs of what you said in my own life, and to hear someone else express it so clearly...you’re really helping by sharing your experiences. I truly wish you the best.
the hard won wisdom and honest self asessment here are inspiring, and im not sure why. but i think its very good you wrote this, and im almost positive the guy you are responding to is going to benefit from what you are saying, not to mention all the other readers
Wow. I have been delving in my own delusional mind for far too long. For me, this really is the truth that has been hiding in the mist of denial. Thanks for sharing.
oh man, that's exactly my experience - I get shit done but I'm perfectly aware that what I'm doing is not near my real capabilities. And tech life allows you to smoke every day without consequences - good money, no strict working hours, no one watching you work etc.
I was an engineer at a design services firm. My 'boss' was 500 miles away, along with the rest of my team. People threw bugs and tasks at me and I did them. At my company, I'd walk in, go straight to my cube, and sit there all day. Occasionally I'd get social. Even when I was assigned to other projects working with local teams, or even leading teams of people, I managed to make it work. People just got used to me being that way I guess.
I wasn't really hiding it. I have long hair(usually worn down) and had a reputation as being a party guy. But I had an outstanding technical reputation and that shielded me from scrutiny. I was making my company a lot of money and as long as that continued I don't think anyone really gave a shit.
I usually did the minimum required of me. While I did challenge myself and learn new things, I stuck to the easy stuff. I worked the minimum amount of time every week and shied away from taking on voluntary projects which would have made my usefulness to my employer more obvious. I got my job done in 20-30 hours, billed for 40, and went home(shitty, I know).
When times got tough for my client(after nearly 6 years) I was eventually replaced with a WiPro guy.
I could have learned C++14, but instead I stuck with what I knew. I could have learned algorithms, but I stuck with the driver/systems/embedded stuff I knew. I could have learned the security frameworks and been really valuable right now.
The last 2 years have been a time of furious catching up. I'm now being courted by FANG companies and hoping I can make the cut(I need to bump my salary to afford alimony... long story).
As long as you a) have experience being stoned in public, and b) don't smell like burnt flower, it's not too difficult to fly under the radar. Just try not to talk with people, however if you do, I've learned that overloading a person's mind distracts them enough to not pay attention to your slightly glassy eyes. Basically: do your job and ask them to do theirs.
Edit: If this sounds like a off-place rant, it was not my intent. :)
If you haven't smoked from dawn till dusk day in day out, you can't really say people can achieve responsibility with it.
What I am saying is not to disagree, but to state that if you're a person who ends up smoking 12-16 times a day, there isn't much willpower left to handle anything but immediate responsibilities.
You may not use much, and you may not notice how your pot use affects you. But of you ever end up using more regularly, more pot per unit of time, do not fool yourself and believe it doesn't have its adverse effects.
But if you do really think that pot doesn't really impede your motivation, drive, social life etc., then show yourself. Quit for a while, if you can. If you've been deep enough into the hole, coming out will feel like a constant mental overdrive. I've heard it feels kind of like similar bliss people say they might get from meditation, or if you were under very mild psychedelics. Ideas, people, arts, everything feel more innately interesting. As if depression lifts, and the whole experience of being feels more vibrant or vivid. And slowly but surely it all fades away, if you go back to regular smoking.
Your message did seem off-putting at first, but I appreciate the clarification.
> If you haven't smoked from dawn till dusk day in day out
There have been several times in my life where this was exactly my behavior, and truthfully, they weren't my best times. In fact I'm not at all proposing that endless and mindless medication, or even limited and conscious medication doesn't have adverse side-effects. That would be a foolish thing to assert.
But then again, I think the point you're trying to address is somewhat absurd. If you take anything (booze, food, sun exposure) to the extreme level of "dusk till Dawn, day in day out", you'll be facing some serious changes to your life. But I know where you're coming from, and I would generally agree.
There's definitely a moment when you start realizing that you're sobering up (long term quitting), and it feels very much like a fog is lifting, and thinking and emotions become easier to direct. Calling it blissful isn't even much of a stretch, unlike relating it to the effects of psychedelics.
> And slowly but surely it all fades away, if you go back to regular smoking
This however I can't agree with. The bliss of sobering up might be real, but it doesn't even come close to the bliss of jumping back into the rabbit hole (true about any drug). That said, this is why I choose marijuana rather than say cigarettes, or booze, or pills, or junk food. Maybe someday I can learn to cut back and be a casual user, instead of the chronic user I am today.
I'm always glad to hear that people find a balance.
One thing that is difficult for me, however, is to understand how things affect me without long periods of abstinence.
Like, I'm an alcoholic, though I've become more and more functional. I pretty much only drink on the weekends and around other humans, now. But I went through about 6 months of total abstinence from drinking and I can say with a great deal of certainty that I didn't realize the various subtle ways that substance abuse was impacting my life.
It's a relavent epistemic problem, and so when I hear people saying what you're saying, I am not at all skeptical-- I believe that it is true that "Responsibility can be achieved with or without pot". I also believe that I personally was unable to fully understand my position when I was drinking every day.
Thanks for the words, and I'm excited to have this conversation in such a productive lense.
I would agree with your statement about not being able to fully understand the situation if the observer is constantly under the influence, in fact I would think it's an understatement. I myself am guilty of assuming a situation to be all fine, when a sober and detoxified version of myself wouldn't agree.
With no offense to you, I'm glad my crutch is marijuana and not alcohol. I grew up with addicts as parents, one with alcohol and the other with pot, and I've witnessed first hand the dramatic and disastrous effects of long-term alcohol abuse. I'm very happy for your ability to keep the addiction at bay, and wish you the best of encouragement.
It's always interesting to hear about people that can scale the alcohol back. I can't do it. I can (usually) get through work sober, but the second I get home I'm grabbing a beer, or downing a shot.
The only thing that worked for me was complete sobriety. Been sober 10 years now. Still think about drinking all the time tho.
My feeling is that we have dysfunctional behaviors and that alcohol is a tool we use to deal with that.
Its easier to not drink now, because I don't want to drink. I think that I know why I drink most of the times (and is scares me when I drink and don't know why); even when I don't know why, I can usually figure out why.
I did not want to quit drinking before my wife left me. She certainly did not make me drink. It was a way of coping with her demanding personality that I chose.
It's good if you can make not drinking work for you. I may be way off base, but if you can figure out why you are wanting to drink and if you can change that thing in your life, then that situation is far better.
If I could choose, I would still be married and have developed a different coping mechanism and just be completely sober, but that's not my choice... the fact that I don't want to drink and only do it for social expediency is cold comfort.
Would you really apply this to any deviation from people interacting with each other, for any length of time? Spending time alone in mediation hardly seems to qualify.
>In other words, it made me feel fine just hanging out in my apartment doing nothing.
That should be the natural state of man, though, I'd extend it to meeting with friends, cooking, playing, etc -- that is, being "non-productive". It took a lot of advertising and protestant ethic working hand in hand through opposing ends to move the needle towards full on consumption and full on productivity.
"All human evil comes from a single cause, man's inability to sit still in a room." - Blaise Pascal
Not everything is a social construction. The default state of life isn't being relaxed and comfortable, the default state is starvation and defending against disease, predation, and conflict. In your world where everyone is cooking and playing, who provides the food? Who staves away conflict?
What lifeform on Earth let you to believe that the default state of being was effortless comfort?
The default state of life is different in the frozen tundra vs the temperate rainforest. Some people live in areas where there is natural abundance of easily exploitable resources. Modernizing a bit, some people live in areas where the minimal acceptable standard of living can be supported on a few hours of work per week.
I'd argue that would be the state of men when they lived in forests. But we live in a society where most of our natural instincts are "suppressed": living in square boxes with just 2-3 people we trust; having to spend time at "work" in order to afford a living; looking at screens; the instinct to hunt; etc etc.
So in a way we do need something to help us "relax" in a world where we can't naturally.
You're hopelessly romanticizing the past. Life back then, in those forests was short, violent, and on the edge of starvation. There actually isn't a lot of food for people animals in a forest, especially the older it is.
>Not everything is a social construction. The default state of life isn't being relaxed and comfortable, the default state is starvation and defending against disease, predation, and conflict.
That's not what ethnologists saw in most primitive people's they've examined...
Looking at a lot of life, it’s more like long periods of rest interspersed with very short, very high intensity struggle. Big cats sleep most of the day, lizards bask, snakes and crocodiles just hang around. Most non-grazing animals spend a majority of time resting or asleep, conserving energy for big stakes bursts. Hell, lots of mammals sleep through whole seasons!
My point was simply that if doing nothing was men’s natural state, we wouldn’t have progressed to the point where Protestantism (or advertising) was even a thing.
What’s a non-anal family? Most families are non-anal if you consider how human reproduction works by I’m not sure that’s what you’re talking about :P
I meant anal, short for "anal retentive" i.e. paranoid about doing things "properly".
Your logic makes sense if the Earth were the same everywhere. It breaks down if you understand that New England is fundamentally different from England or Africa.
The fact that puritanism thrived says something about New England's natural state in the 1600s. It says nothing about humankind's natural state.
Really, the fact that it emerged so late in human history, and was dominant so briefly, in such an unusual place suggests it's somewhat unnatural at a species scale.
No, I don't think TV, video games and the Web really count as sitting "still". They don't fulfill the spirit of that quote. "Sitting still" in this context is about being contemplative, not being distracted by a glowing box.
I just wanted to give a quick note that I do not have this experience at all.
Food doesn't taste better.
I am less creative. I lose my English and my Dutch. I am more stupid and everyone else who's high seems so intelligent!
I think about pretty much nothing. I'm like a little cupcake on a couch. I am doing as much as a little cupcake on a couch as well :)
I do have less anxiety and better sex. So for me it really just is a tool to use for those two things. I mostly use it as a tool for relaxation or psychological experimentation on myself (especially my working memory behaves differently).
Another downside you might not have considered is that you may have also adversely affected your neighbors if you live in shared housing. Not everyone enjoys the smell of pot, and I've had neighbors that made me miserable from the constant pot stench seeping through our shared wall.
This is why i don't use pot. The smell destroyed my house. I had pancretitus and quit drinking and thought i would just smoke once in a while (smoked in high school but that was decades ago).
Bought some, put it in a zip lock bag, in a zip lock bag, in a zip lock bag, in a glass container, inside a gun safe. By the way i didn't start with this configuration by when i reached it and still could smell it everywhere i knew it had to go.
No thanks. Not opposed to using when out and someone has some but the smell was just to much to keep any in my house (this was an 8th).
Are you sure your neighbor wasn't running a grow op? I've never had a strain that wasn't tamed by two Ziploc bags, and the packaging that comes from the legal recreational shops are effectively odor-proof.
This sounds very wrong. I've kept plenty of pot hidden in my parent's house growing up and they never ever smelled it. They would have busted me hard for that.
Really fresh flower (from my grow tent, all perfectly legal in Alaska) was that aromatic. It's also so sticky that it can get on your fingers and other things, and you are actually smelling that and not the flower in the bag.
I'll never stop being fascinated by how radically different the experiences of cannabis users are. The idea of weed reducing anxiety and making you feel "fine doing nothing" are the polar opposites of how it makes me feel.
Overall it sounds like your experiences were much more positive than mine, though.
One folk wisdom is that pot (and alcohol too) unblock some inner mental states that the rest of your brain inhibits. So some people get high and forget their troubles, but some people get high and forget their coping mechanisms.
It sounds like you consumed too large a dose. Being overwhelmingly high can easily be anxious and uncomfortable for many people.
Even if you think you consumed a small amount, it may have been more than you could handle, especially if you are comparing it to what is consumed by somebody who has built up a tolerance. As the article says, some of what's out there is very potent.
Not necessarily. I used to be able to take huge hits out of bongs for the first two years that I smoked - no anxiety. Something changed at some point and now taking even a small baby hit off of a joint will send my anxiety into overdrive...to the point where I can't even be in the same room with friends I've known my whole life. They can feel it too...it's contagious.
The last time that I smoked, almost 4 years ago, I had a single hit from a pot ecig. What would've been a non-issue, made me completely unable to function socially. Even trying to watch a relatively tame episode of Law and Order: SVU had me worried that my friends were going to hurt me and anxious about the episode content. I honestly felt mentally unwell and like I was going crazy.
I've smoked on and off since 14. I used to just feel kind of out of it and relaxed. It's not something I can do anymore, and not something that I miss.
No offense intended, but I'd like to mirror a lot of other folks' responses here: everyone's body is different.
I've tried a lot of different kinds of pot (it's all legal in the PNW) and I've never experienced the good feelings other folks I know do. It's just not pleasant for me, and it's a little grating to have to repeat this to my pot advocate friends; great that you get something out of it, but the reaction to my experiences that I just haven't tried the right kind is frustrating.
I experimented extensively with sativas, indicas, and all sorts of hybrids. I never ever got a euphoria. Indicas (and sativas in sufficient quantity) would give me couch lock, and clouded my mind to where I couldn't code. It never felt good, even tho I really wanted it to. I wanted to replace opioids with it. Sadly I just don't think my body works with it. Maybe that's why I come from a family of alcoholics rather than potheads :shrug:
Yeah, different strains is the most common explanation i've heard. But in my own self experimentation I notice relatively little difference between Sativa and Indica.
> Quitting wasn't that hard. And I still think about how great I felt when I smoked. I may smoke again in the future but for now, I appreciate operating in the real world without any crutches.
I think cannabis is an amazingly useful and versatile drug, but there was a time in my life where I was high pretty much constantly and although I wouldn't want to do that today, I actually think it is more useful - as a practical tool - when you have a high tolerance.
I find that when I don't have a tolerance to it, the feeling is pretty close in resemblance to how I feel when I've had way too much coffee - at that point I can't really do anything requiring complex thought. I have to do something pretty repetitive, so I find myself cleaning or just walking, maybe working out. Still useful for something, but that's about the extent of it.
At any rate, I find that the best part of being high is when I'm on the downward slope of the experience. Then I find I am more relaxed, productive, etc. I feel that I have gotten something of physical benefit from the effects.
So ... I really don't usually enjoy being stoned anymore. But I think cannabis is a more versatile tool than people give it credit for, and should be thought of that way. I'm not saying it shouldn't be used recreationally, but rather one should consider the right way to use it in context of the desired effect. Because the range of possible uses is actually pretty large.
I guess what I'm trying to say is - I think it still deserves a place in your medicine cabinet :)
I feel about the same. From the time I was 14 I was smoking pot nearly everyday until about 3 months ago when I decided to cut it out of my life completely. I really dont have an exact 'why' but I came home after work one day looked at a bowl that I had packed the previous night and decided to flush my weed down the toilet and throw all my paraphernalia and accessories (grinder, papers, wraps, bowls) down the trash chute.
I haven't missed it once honestly. Maybe I just came to a realization that I didn't enjoy it in the first place.
Edit: I'd like to add that around the same time I gave up/quit using all drugs (except a beer or two on the weekends) unless they were prescribed to me by my doctor. Even then I refused pain medication when I broke my hand because I think I have a tendency for substance abuse.
I'm glad you quit, because that's what you needed to do for you, and that's always the right thing to do. However, even though your comment is anecdotal, I do feel the need to point out that your concerns weren't because of the pot, but rather because of your decisions. If you smoke in moderation and learn your strains (sativa dominant for social situations, indica dominant for Netflix and chill), then it's a highly enjoyable plant with little to no downsides. From your comment, it looks like you overdid the indica, and you wouldn't enjoy sativa if you have anxiety to begin with. That being said, were I you, I certainly would stay quit, especially since sativa may be out of the equation for you.
Have there been any double blind tests of the difference between Sativa and Indica?
As someone who doesn't smoke, it sure sounds like sommelier's talk.
Even though it's almost legal now, the world of cannabis is full of so much mystical mumbo jumbo and outright fabrication. Take the whole CBD thing, for example. The only consensus seems to be that people who sell it say it does whatever the customer wants.
And how much CBD oil is actually being produced? Enough to stock every vape shop and every head shop in every strip mall in the entire USA with a few liters? Seems hard to imagine an industry that size.
There's a range of cannabinoids with varying effects; I believe this is something that's studied, acknowledged, but still not completely understood. THC is just the main one. The variations explain the differences between strains, "pure" Indica having higher concentration of THC, but lower diversity of cannabinoids. In reality everything is a blend.
This is in contrast to alcohol, which is straight ethanol, all the time. There's no difference in the active ingredients in alcohols. Anybody that claims a different high, based on beer, whiskey, ect., is only referring to environment and aesthetic influences, which do matter (also, hangovers may vary, due to ingredients used). There's bullshit in the industry, specifically w/CBD and medical claims, but I think it goes well beyond sommelier's talk.
Marijuana is not an easy to understand and classify, unlike other drugs, like alcohol. I think it's been pretty well established that there are significant differences between strains, though I suppose you're right, I've never seen a specific study.
The interview seems to support the "sommelier's talk" hypothesis, considering the doctor explicitly says that "the sativa/indica distinction as commonly applied in the lay literature is total nonsense and an exercise in futility."
After thirty years of smoking, I've found no real difference between sativa and indica strains. There are a half dozen different deltas of THC, and CBD has it's own. That's where the real variety in effect comes from. But it could be any strain that has this. The general consensus is sativa = active, indica = sleepy, but I've found it both ways. Ultimately the grower/gardener has a much bigger effect on the quality than the strain.
Gotta push back on the CBD part. Epidiolex was approved by the FDA (priority, fast track), but so far, multiple lines of evidence have shown it to be efficacious for a number of conditions.
The sativa/indica spectrum isn't really accurate. Pot is more like a multidimensional feature vector crossed with the user's feature vector- a complex multivariate interaction.
Nearly all are cross breeds, yes. That does not mean that the labels are inaccurate - the species just don't correspond to lay-person's assumptions.
Trainwreck and it's daughter strain, Casey Jones, for example, have a heavily Indica dominant lineage, but behave veyr much like a Sativa. Casey Jones is amusing to bring out at parties: the volume of the room rises precipitously for about 20 minutes, and then... silence. :) It's very reliable.
The quality of the information on strains at the stores depends on the store you frequent. I tip well if the salesperson is knowledgeable and helpful.
I think we're in general agreement (and both a lot more experienced than the average person). I've seen things labelled at pure sativa which did nothing but cause people to feel couch lock, and pure indicas that lead to head highs in the stratosphere. I don't think the physiological effect is correlated strongly with the strain.
Pretty much anything that lights up reward or adrenaline/reaction parts of the Brian can be addictive. I think its important to qualify if we are talking about innate physiological addiction (as seen in opioids or alcohol) or the kind we can get from anything. After all there are people with food addictions and yes, they need help, but that isn't about to change the legal status of food.
I respect people making their own choices to use or not use as they see fit and be warned of the experiences of others, but we need to be clear when the substance we are talking about causes innate physiological dependence, cannabis for example does not.
"Marijuana (Cannabis sativa) is the most commonly used illicit drug worldwide as well as in the Unites States. Prolonged use of marijuana or repeated administration of its primary psychoactive constituent, Δ9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), can lead to physical dependence in humans and laboratory animals. The changes that occur with repeated cannabis use include alterations in behavioral, physiological, and biochemical responses. A variety of withdrawal responses occur in cannabis-dependent individuals: anger, aggression, irritability, anxiety and nervousness, decreased appetite or weight loss, restlessness, and sleep difficulties with strange dreams. But the long half-life and other pharmacokinetic properties of THC result in delayed expression of withdrawal symptoms, and because of the lack of contiguity between drug cessation and withdrawal responses the latter are not readily recognized as a clinically relevant syndrome. Over the past 30 years, a substantial body of clinical and laboratory animal research has emerged supporting the assertion that chronic exposure to cannabinoids produces physical dependence and may contribute to drug maintenance in cannabis-dependent individuals." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3606907/
Also there is no clear distinction between physical and psychological dependence, just like the lines between physical and psychological trauma is equally blurred.
I stand corrected, it looks like my view was about 16 years out of date. However, the work I am reading indicates that caffeine is a much more addictive substance than cannabis...
> A variety of withdrawal responses occur in cannabis-dependent individuals: anger, aggression, irritability, anxiety and nervousness, decreased appetite or weight loss, restlessness, and sleep difficulties with strange dreams.
Yes, this is true, I experience all of this when I take a tolerance break. But this feeling lasts 1-2 days max, even after months on end of cannabis use.
Drugs like pot and alcohol seem to lower our standard for happiness. Sitting alone on the couch at home with no friends, you may not feel so great; drink a bottle of wine, or smoke a fat blunt and suddenly that couch feels pretty comfortable. The gnawing feeling of discomfort is not a bug, but a feature designed to force you to act. The main reason I avoid marijuana is the effect on my short-term memory, though.
In PiHKAL, Alexander Shulgin, wrote:
"I personally have chosen some drugs to be of sufficient value to be worth the risks; others, I deem not to be of sufficient value. For instance, I used a moderate amount of alcohol, generally in the form of wine, and -- at the present time -- my liver function tests are completely normal. I do not smoke tobacco. I used to, quite heavily, then gave it up. It was not the health risk that swayed me, but rather the fact that I had become completely dependent upon it. That was, in my view, a case of the price being unacceptably high.
Each decision is my own, based on what I know of the drug and what I know about myself.
Among the drugs that are currently illegal, I have chosen not to use marijuana, as I feel the light-headed intoxication and benign alteration of consciousness does not adequately compensate for an uncomfortable feeling that I am wasting time.
I have tried heroin. This drug, of course, is one of the major concerns in our society, at the present time. In me, it produces a dreamy peacefulness, with no rough edges of worry, stress or concern. But there is also a loss of motivation, of alertness, and of the urge to get things done it is not any fear of addiction that causes me to decide against heroin; it is the fact that, under its influence, nothing seems to be particularly important to me.
I have also tried cocaine. This drug, particularly in its notorioous "crack" form, is the cause celebre of today. To me, cocaine is an aggressive pusher, a stimulant which gives me a sense of power and of being completely with it, on top of the world. But there is also the inescapable knowlege, underneath, that it is not true power, that I am not really on top of the world, and that, when the drug's effects have disappeared, I will have gained nothing. There is a strange sense of falseness about the state. There is no insight. There is no learning. In its own distinctive way, I find cocaine to be as much an escape drug as heroin. With either one, you escape from who you are, or -- even more to the point -- from who you are not. In either case, you are relieved for a short time from awareness of your inadequacies. I frankly would rather address mine than escape them; there is, ultimately, far greater satisfaction that way.
With the psychedelic drugs, I believe that, for me, the modest risks (an occasional difficult experince or perhaps some body malaise) are more than balanced by the potential for learning. And that is why I have chosen to explore this particular area of pharmacology.
What do I mean when I say there is a potential for learning? It is a potential, not a certainty. I can learn, but I'm not forced to do so; I can gain insight into possible ways of improving the quality of my life, but only my own efforts will bring about the desired changes."
"The gnawing feeling of discomfort is not a bug, but a feature designed to force you to act."
We all have a lot of feelings. Very few of them are unambiguously helpful and I would hesitate anyone from assuming certain impulses are purely good and should always be obeyed.
For many people, there is a need to "turn off" certain persistent feelings because they can't be sated otherwise. Some of us would simply like to be able to relax without those "gnawing" feelings bothering us, because we know our lives are successful and fulfilled beyond the point where we should be experiencing frequent discomfort for not taking constant action to improve our situation.
I have used cannabis a long time and while I had similar ideas in my 20s, none of this is similar to my current experience - mainly the verbiage and ideas that seem to be derived from drug treatment literature.
I’ve tried not consuming cannabis for long periods and it doesn’t improve my life overall. I did find it necessary to abstain when I has a programming/sysadmin startup job and was trying to learn and manage a huge load.
However, I’ve realized that I’ve largely smoked to cope with my significant growing medical issues over time, and my experience with life in general is not similar to that of others. Most people haven’t spent 1/3 of each day feeling much like they’re dying following meals, but I sure have.
For me, it alleviates my insomnia, anxiety, helps me relax, reduces minor aches and pains (of which I have many), and helps me work through my endless food settling/belching/chest pain/vomiting complex.
It also has a huge community around the cultivation, artistic accessories and (less engagingly) consumption. I was an artistic pipe blower for about 18 years and have a lot of other friends who have devoted their lives to making glass smoking accessories. Overall it fills a role somewhere around coffee, tobacco and wine.
Have you investigated that GI issue in depth? You could have Celiac, Crohn's, or a number of other issues. Covering up the symptoms with cannabis sounds like a surefire way to risk some sort of GI cancer down the road.
My family has a long history of GI issues that went unidentified and untreated for several years. They're extremely damaging over time. If you're constantly uncomfortable you should really diagnose the root cause ASAP.
Oh, and I’ll add that i’ve been self employed with no insurance or financially reasonable access to health care for almost all of the time my health was slowly deteriorating- over 18 years.
When I did see doctors, my symptoms were diagnosed as other syndromes or dismissed as something very mild. A family member who has celiac suffered from years of misdiagnosis and ineffective treatment, including surgeries, for conditions they don’t suffer from. So if I had been in the medical system all this time, it’s not clear the outcome would have been significantly better.
Yes, I almost certainly have celiac and food allergies. I’m currently at a leading hospital being evaluated by a widely cited expert who has written books about celiac and specializes in people who don’t get better following at GFD, such as me.
I agree that covering up symptoms with any drug can cause problems. It’s very common for swallowing disorders and celiac to exist for years before being diagnosed. I have celiac with the less typical presentation with fewer lower GI symptoms.
The "downsides" are still much better than those of alcoholism. I just hope (and believe this may happen this way) more people are going to give up booze and drugs and switch to the weed. As soon as I've tried (for a number of times, the first experiences may be confusing and even scary) the weed I've forgotten vodka as a nightmare, now I just smoke some weed about 2 evenings a month in average.
I still highly recommend to stay away from the weed if it's not legal at your location however - messing with criminals and cops can really ruin your life. If it's legal for medical use only - don't hesitate to ask the doctor (but don't be pushy or play an expert, doctors hate this), some progressive doctors at some locations may actually prescribe it for addictions, depressions and eating disorders treatment, not only for cancer/aids.
I was always curious about the mental sharpness / memory portion. I know the short-term memory impairment is well documented but in regards to mental sharpness, that's a bit more nebulous and hard to hone in on. Is there any evidence that the use of cannabis effects cognitive ability while not under the effects or "high" of the drug?
I'm a former daily smoker. I carry a water bottle with me everywhere. When I was a daily smoker, I would pretty frequently forget where I had just set my water bottle down. My partner still gives me shit for it. Since stopping, this is a very rare occurrence.
As far as the mental sharpness thing goes,I didn't notice any major changes. Some people I know would have some fogginess the day after. This never affected me personally. I think brain fog is definitely a real thing for _some_ users.
I totally understand this is anecdotal. I'm just trying to share my experiences. I hate how defensive people can be about cannabis. I am sympathetic to this because giving proponents of cannabis prohibition anything to latch onto delays progress. It should be legal. People should also have honest discussions about it. It's a fairly low risk drug IMO, but it is a drug.
Speaking from personal experience (several years of nearly daily use with “off” periods of a few months) - the loss of sharpness was indeed a bit more nebulous but definitely real.
On the plus side, I recently discovered low THC, high CBD strains that offer the anti anxiety benefits without loss of sharpness or short term memory. There’s almost no psychoactive effect, so this won’t get you high, but it will chill you out and help you get in the zone if you struggle with anxiety or PTSD symptoms.
For me, it leaves a lingering effect on my short term memory and mental performance, that sometimes bleeds into the next day.
Long after the high wears off, I sometimes consciously can tell "wow, I am really mentally underperforming today".
It's more difficult to form quick/sharp responses when talking, my though process isn't as sharp, and its kind of like my brain has more difficulty following trees of connections that I am normally very quick at.
I think the worst change I made after I began regularly smoking was ceasing my regular workouts. I felt that I was making more intellectual and emotional progress with regular meditation while high than I was with my body during workouts, which I struggled with at the time for various reasons. My life has become much busier since I began smoking (much of which I positively attribute to the creativity I felt while smoking), and I haven't been able to get back into a regular workout schedule, despite not smoking often anymore. I am thinking now that the biggest detrimental impact on my memory and happiness came from losing my exercise routine more than the marijuana itself.
the pot doesn't have anything to do with you ceasing your workouts. the brasilian jiu-jitsu community has an incredible high # of regular users, while high.
It didn't make me stop exercising, no. I was dealing with some undiagnosed health issues that made my workouts exceptionally unproductive and chose to spend more time writing poetry, painting, and journaling while high instead of continuing my workouts. I felt I was making more personal progress with those than with exercise, and that being creative and productive was a better use of my time and energy.
After ending my five year exercise habit it became a lot harder to start exercising again, and brain fog and laziness began setting in. The highs also got a lot duller and less productive, and I subsequently began seeking the highs I knew from when I was in good health which led me down the wrong path for a while. I'm not blaming marijuana for this in any way, just acknowledging that I stopped exercising when I started smoking, and that some physical/mental health issues I've had since then most likely exist because I haven't been exercising.
In other words, putting psychoactive chemicals in your brain is a big deal and you should try to establish strong personal health and wellness routines before you begin doing it, and then prioritize those routines above the chemical habit.
Any daily pot-smoker will tell you that their short-term memory declines after a few weeks of daily/hourly use. It's extremely well known, though perhaps not well documented.
Right, I acknowledge that in my previous comment. I was more referring to the mental sharpness or cognitive ability. I was curious if there was a noticeable difference in critical thinking/problem solving for users while they are not under the effects of the drug itself
The effects on memory are related to the time since you smoked and are most noticeable after 1-3 hours. Basically, you get stimulated at first (during which time you may actually have increased creative problem solving) and eventually you get tired or "burned out". It feels a lot like low blood sugar which is why some people over eat. If you smoke a lot these effects can linger as a sort of hang over. If you smoke every day for years, it might last a few days.
Speaking for myself. If smoking regularly yes, there's a decline, even 12 hours after the high has gone. The more I spread things out however, the greater the benefits seem to be, both during and after. Every couple of weeks would likely be most ideal.
As an unscientific experiment, compare the rate of spelling and grammar errors in the comments on this article to the error rate in HN comments overall. I think I see a pattern, but it may be that all I'm seeing is my own biases.
I am fine with doing nothing even as a non-user. Recently things have been getting boring but I find it pretty hard to take the initiative and get to know more people. Its the same process all over again (meeting a new person; finding common interests etc.) which bores me to death.
Not sure what to do in life at this point. I see some sense in just participating in the circus and wait till death comes.
i'm still under ssri, mainly to avoid withdrawal effects, I don't really need them, and I do get the 'no crutches' thing, I'll be happy when I won't take them anymore.
I had a very similar experience except I was a student at the time. I had no job and therefore gradually my sober life became less and less. I'd stay up later into the night, wake up later, and light up earlier. Eventually I got to the point where I was high all the time, but not happy. I had to move house and ran out of weed so I just decided not to get any more. The next couple of weeks were weird. I couldn't sleep properly. But things got better. I've smoked a couple of times since but have no desire to do it again now even though I know it does feel good.
The biggest downside for me--and the reason I ended up quitting--was that my sober life just sucked in comparison. I was just waiting until the end of the day when I could go home and light up.
The other downsides were that I wasn't as sharp mentally when I was sober. I wasn't as ambitious. I was less social. In other words, it made me feel fine just hanging out in my apartment doing nothing. On the balance that made pot a negative for me.
Quitting wasn't that hard. And I still think about how great I felt when I smoked. I may smoke again in the future but for now, I appreciate operating in the real world without any crutches.